Can you see my second reply to Jason ? How was my 2nd Posada HOF argument, any more convincing?

While some outs can be more productive than a strikeout (few proportionatly) unless Yogi/Dickey were stickmen/situational hitters (they dont strike me as being that though, admittedly I never saw them play) then the difference in strikeouts may not have meant much run production wise.

I think the way you compare eras is through comparison to contemporaries. Piazza was a little before, Mauer a little after. During a large portion of his career Posada was the man. (Pudge was a 'roid creation)

Yeah, Posada had some serious defensive flaws, but so do a lot of HOFers. I actually admire the fact that he, a second baseman, was playing catcher and on pure will and determination made it work.

I think Posada – I think solid, steady, clutch run producer, best offensive catcher of his generation – clubhouse leader – a throwback , a guy you want in a foxhole with you – champion. That to me is a HOFer.

PS – if Damon gets to 3000 (should have stayed with Yankees) , he'll make it. Writers love him.

I just think he falls below like Dwight Evans et al. (though Andre Dawson's election argues for Evans, I'd say).

If you at his contemporaries and near-contemporaries at catcher, who's going in? Piazza certainly. Pudge probably. Who am missing besides Mauer, who's way to young to speculate about yet?

Of course strikeouts are unproductive outs. You can drive in a run or move a runner over with just about any other kind of out. A strike out does nothing for the team. I think Posada's excessive number of strikeouts compared to Yogi for one (Dickey was a much better hitter for average than either one) may in part explain why he has fewer RBIs with basically the same number of HRs per 162 games as Berra, and many more HR than Dickey. Both of those guys were just better hitters than Posada. All three were on great Yankee dynasty teams w/ lots of great hitters in front of them. I do think the best hitters don't strike out in 20% of their at bats, that's up there in Reggie Jackson territory but w/o the 500 HRs (FYI, Reggie's K rate is 22% of PA, Mantle, 17%). Some sluggers can get away with a high strike out rate. Posada's not that kind of slugger.

THe “more steady” v. “peaks” argument seems to me another way of framing the great seasons v. complier debate. For me either can be an HOF, but great seasons are more important. If you win three MVPs–like Berra and Campy–you were obviously one of the best players of your time. Posada never was. Furthermore, I don't think Posada was really any more consistent than Berra or Dickey except after 32 years of age. I suspect much of that is due to modern conditioning, etc.

Posada's close, but I dunno if he'd get my vote. Damon's not even close, though we was an excellent player. But I'm a bit of a HOF purist. I think the Hall if full of guys who should be purged. The Hall should be for the greatest of the great not the likes of Rick Ferrell and Red Schoendienst.

Posada's 162 game avg stats are right there with those guys only his were more steady with less spectacular peaks. A very solid contributor to the most successful franchise during the time period and probably the best offensive catcher in his league for a decade. HOF – yes – by a hair.

PS – Johnny Damon is a HOFer too.

He doesn't come close to the performance of the “slugging catchers” – Bench, Berra, Fisk – nor is an all-around guy like Dickey.

Great player, but he'd be the weakest Hall of Fame catcher of the live-ball era outside of Rick Ferrell and Ray Schalk….

- Who is the best Yankee catcher of all time?
- Should Posada make the HOF?
- Am I a dope for not providing any context?

Any of those titles work.